X-COM RP THINK TANK (part2)

[MarineAvenger]

You know I wanna bring something up. It's funny that Desmond was found out for being a EXALT spy, but Eva has still not been figured out the hole time even when they were talking to Elen.

I am under the impression that the higher ups are around 70% sure she is also a spy. Eva may want to just come out and tell Morrigan before the base assault and beg for forgiveness, but seeing as how Desmond was seen in the eyes of his peers compared to Eva...better late then never.

 

[Dahlexpert]

It might be best for Eva to tell the commander, after EXALT is wiped out. That way it dosen't matter. OR she can never tell Morrgan and keep things the way they are.

 

[DarkGemini24601]

You know I wanna bring something up. It's funny that Desmond was found out for being a EXALT spy, but Eva has still not been figured out the hole time even when they were talking to Elen.

Emma worries that if she reveals Eva at this point it may be bad for everyone involved.

 

[ZombieSplitter53]

"No Ammy, you can't come"

"But why?"

"Cause you're too nice. You might let him live."

Zombie has something to say on the matter, if any cares.

I agree... with both sides, to a degree. I've always believed that life in prison is the worst punishment then the quick death, and if it is avoidable, one should never have the right to kill another. Though, you have to understand Frost, his death is more theatrical (though personally, I prefer the idea of him suffering in prison with he knowledge that he lost, and everything he has work for has come to naught.

So keep that in mind with what I'm about to say, because I do agree with you in that regard.

However, I see no justification in what he does. I can see what you're saying in regards to Lusett herself, but not her children. Elene and the others should not, can not, be expected to be held responsible for what Lusett did, especially since she is done. I don't like to go there, but decided that an entire group of people should die for past transgressions they weren't involved with... kinda Nazi-ish.

I never, never, quote religious text in fear of offending someone, but this is the best way of putting my thoughts on that matter:

“The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” (Ez 18:20)

Or, if we want to go with a more sci-fi reasoning, here is a quote from Star Trek Voyager:

[in a vision, Chakotay is talking to his father about his and Seska's son]

Commander Chakotay: He was born without my consent. I had no part in it.

Kolopak: No part in it? Well, it's been a long time, so forgive me, but it seems that I *had* to play a part before your mother could conceive.

[...]

Kolopak: Centuries ago, when the women of our tribe were raped by white conquerors, many gave birth to their children. And we did not reject them. They were accepted by the tribe. One was a direct ancestor of ours, Chakotay. His name... was Ce Acatl. He became a great leader of our people. Here is a man who was given life without his mother's consent. Are you so different from her? And is your child so different from Ce Acatl?

Commander Chakotay: [after a pause] No.

Kolopak: Mm... He is your son, Chakotay. And he is a child of our people.

 

[Frostlich1228]

Zombie has something to say on the matter, if any cares.

I agree... with both sides, to a degree. I've always believed that life in prison is the worst punishment then the quick death, and if it is avoidable, one should never have the right to kill another. Though, you have to understand Frost, his death is more theatrical (though personally, I prefer the idea of him suffering in prison with he knowledge that he lost, and everything he has work for has come to naught.

So keep that in mind with what I'm about to say, because I do agree with you in that regard.

However, I see no justification in what he does. I can see what you're saying in regards to Lusett herself, but not her children. Elene and the others should not, can not, be expected to be held responsible for what Lusett did, especially since she is done. I don't like to go there, but decided that an entire group of people should die for past transgressions they weren't involved with... kinda Nazi-ish.

I never, never, quote religious text in fear of offending someone, but this is the best way of putting my thoughts on that matter:

“The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” (Ez 18:20)

Or, if we want to go with a more sci-fi reasoning, here is a quote from Star Trek Voyager:

[in a vision, Chakotay is talking to his father about his and Seska's son]

Commander Chakotay: He was born without my consent. I had no part in it.

Kolopak: No part in it? Well, it's been a long time, so forgive me, but it seems that I *had* to play a part before your mother could conceive.

[...]

Kolopak: Centuries ago, when the women of our tribe were raped by white conquerors, many gave birth to their children. And we did not reject them. They were accepted by the tribe. One was a direct ancestor of ours, Chakotay. His name... was Ce Acatl. He became a great leader of our people. Here is a man who was given life without his mother's consent. Are you so different from her? And is your child so different from Ce Acatl?

Commander Chakotay: [after a pause] No.

Kolopak: Mm... He is your son, Chakotay. And he is a child of our people.

Like I said, I can't stop myself from comparing David to Viktor.

If Ammy were to die, David would hunt and kill those responsible, and if the offspring of those responsible decided to try and continue doing that exact thing that killed her. David would have no qualms about killing them too...

Now would he go crazy and try to take over the world after his revenge, probably not... But you can't deny the similarities are there.

 

[MarineAvenger]

I can't tell you how giddy it makes me feel to have people debate the nature of a character I have created. Fills me with accomplishment (and dread) to see that a such a strong influence go but I will be damned if it won't be satisfying to kill the monster I created.

 

[DarkGemini24601]

Like I said, I can't stop myself from comparing David to Viktor.

If Ammy were to die, David would hunt and kill those responsible, and if the offspring of those responsible decided to try and continue doing that exact thing that killed her. David would have no qualms about killing them too...

Now would he go crazy and try to take over the world after his revenge, probably not... But you can't deny the similarities are there.

Though that doesn't make what David would do right. That's a bit...obsessive.

 

[MarineAvenger]

Zombie has something to say on the matter, if any cares.

I agree... with both sides, to a degree. I've always believed that life in prison is the worst punishment then the quick death, and if it is avoidable, one should never have the right to kill another. Though, you have to understand Frost, his death is more theatrical (though personally, I prefer the idea of him suffering in prison with he knowledge that he lost, and everything he has work for has come to naught.

So keep that in mind with what I'm about to say, because I do agree with you in that regard.

However, I see no justification in what he does. I can see what you're saying in regards to Lusett herself, but not her children. Elene and the others should not, can not, be expected to be held responsible for what Lusett did, especially since she is done. I don't like to go there, but decided that an entire group of people should die for past transgressions they weren't involved with... kinda Nazi-ish.

I never, never, quote religious text in fear of offending someone, but this is the best way of putting my thoughts on that matter:

“The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” (Ez 18:20)

Or, if we want to go with a more sci-fi reasoning, here is a quote from Star Trek Voyager:

[in a vision, Chakotay is talking to his father about his and Seska's son]

Commander Chakotay: He was born without my consent. I had no part in it.

Kolopak: No part in it? Well, it's been a long time, so forgive me, but it seems that I *had* to play a part before your mother could conceive.

[...]

Kolopak: Centuries ago, when the women of our tribe were raped by white conquerors, many gave birth to their children. And we did not reject them. They were accepted by the tribe. One was a direct ancestor of ours, Chakotay. His name... was Ce Acatl. He became a great leader of our people. Here is a man who was given life without his mother's consent. Are you so different from her? And is your child so different from Ce Acatl?

Commander Chakotay: [after a pause] No.

Kolopak: Mm... He is your son, Chakotay. And he is a child of our people.

I would like people to keep this in mind moving forward. Viktor spent 10 years of his life in a cell. It would require nothing short of a miracle from above...to make him go back to one. This is a man with the mind set where he has nothing left to lose and if he is going down, he will drag anyone and everyone down with him.

 

[MarineAvenger]

I would like people to keep this in mind moving forward. Viktor spent 10 years of his life in a cell. It would require nothing short of a miracle from above...to make him go back to one. This is a man with the mind set where he has nothing left to lose and if he is going down, he will drag anyone and everyone down with him.

The literal definition of a homicidal maniac.

 

[BMPixy]

Zombie has something to say on the matter, if any cares.

I agree... with both sides, to a degree. I've always believed that life in prison is the worst punishment then the quick death, and if it is avoidable, one should never have the right to kill another. Though, you have to understand Frost, his death is more theatrical (though personally, I prefer the idea of him suffering in prison with he knowledge that he lost, and everything he has work for has come to naught.

So keep that in mind with what I'm about to say, because I do agree with you in that regard.

However, I see no justification in what he does. I can see what you're saying in regards to Lusett herself, but not her children. Elene and the others should not, can not, be expected to be held responsible for what Lusett did, especially since she is done. I don't like to go there, but decided that an entire group of people should die for past transgressions they weren't involved with... kinda Nazi-ish.

I never, never, quote religious text in fear of offending someone, but this is the best way of putting my thoughts on that matter:

“The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” (Ez 18:20)

Or, if we want to go with a more sci-fi reasoning, here is a quote from Star Trek Voyager:

[in a vision, Chakotay is talking to his father about his and Seska's son]

Commander Chakotay: He was born without my consent. I had no part in it.

Kolopak: No part in it? Well, it's been a long time, so forgive me, but it seems that I *had* to play a part before your mother could conceive.

[...]

Kolopak: Centuries ago, when the women of our tribe were raped by white conquerors, many gave birth to their children. And we did not reject them. They were accepted by the tribe. One was a direct ancestor of ours, Chakotay. His name... was Ce Acatl. He became a great leader of our people. Here is a man who was given life without his mother's consent. Are you so different from her? And is your child so different from Ce Acatl?

Commander Chakotay: [after a pause] No.

Kolopak: Mm... He is your son, Chakotay. And he is a child of our people.

He broke out of a prison once, even if it was a one imposed by Lucett. What's to say he won't break out of another?

It's the Joker problem: how do you deal with a criminal that can break out of any prison given enough time? Imprison them in hell. And then even then...

 

[ZombieSplitter53]

I would like people to keep this in mind moving forward. Viktor spent 10 years of his life in a cell. It would require nothing short of a miracle from above...to make him go back to one. This is a man with the mind set where he has nothing left to lose and if he is going down, he will drag anyone and everyone down with him.

Well, I meant if it was possible. Sometimes, you can't take them alive. Just because I'm optimistic doesn't mean I'm naive.

 

[ZombieSplitter53]

He broke out of a prison once, even if it was a one imposed by Lucett. What's to say he won't break out of another?

It's the Joker problem: how do you deal with a criminal that can break out of any prison given enough time? Imprison them in hell. And then even then...

I'm pretty sure Lusett let him out because she needed his assistance and foolishly didn't realize how vengeful he'd be. In retrospect... kinda stupid...

 

[Frostlich1228]

Though that doesn't make what David would do right. That's a bit...obsessive.

I am saying that Viktor's brother was obviously very special to him... Lusett's cloning killed his brother... Now Elene wants to rekindle the same kind of research that took his brother's life. I imagine he doesn't want what happened to him to happen to anyone else's family.

In truth, Lusett's idea of doing anything and taking any risks in the name of science is what let to not only her death, but to this entire war with EXALT. So if you really think about it, all this is her fault.

 

[MarineAvenger]

I'm pretty sure Lusett let him out because she needed his assistance and foolishly didn't realize how vengeful he'd be. In retrospect... kinda stupid...

She had an idea of how vengeful he would be, he just outmaneuvered her and struck when she didn't expect it. If she had time, she probably could have prevented her murder. She was killed within the week he was let out.

 

[MarineAvenger]

I am saying that Viktor's brother was obviously very special to him... Lusett's cloning killed his brother... Now Elene wants to rekindle the same kind of research that took his brother's life. I imagine he doesn't want what happened to him to happen to anyone else's family.

In truth, Lusett's idea of doing anything and taking any risks in the name of science is what let to not only her death, but to this entire war with EXALT. So if you really think about it, all this is her fault.

Or...you know...he could just be crazy. Just a thought.

 

[MarineAvenger]

If this confuses people too much I will just compile a concise description of Viktor that explains his motivations so there is no speculation.

 

[Frostlich1228]

Or...you know...he could just be crazy. Just a thought.

Yeah, but that's think of a cop out explanation isn't it?

I just like speculating on this stuff, I find it fun!

 

[ZombieSplitter53]

I am saying that Viktor's brother was obviously very special to him... Lusett's cloning killed his brother... Now Elene wants to rekindle the same kind of research that took his brother's life. I imagine he doesn't want what happened to him to happen to anyone else's family.

In truth, Lusett's idea of doing anything and taking any risks in the name of science is what let to not only her death, but to this entire war with EXALT. So if you really think about it, all this is her fault.

But Viktor has no problem doing the exact... same... thing. Remember, he decided to keep using the clones for his personal vendetta against the world before Elene even woke up. Lusett was guilty. Viktor is equally as guilty, if not more so for continuing the research he killed Lusett over.

Yeah... sorry, Frost, but I'm gonna have to side Gem on this one. I can understand Viktor's motivation, and I could see why David would do the same thing, but just because more then one person would do the same thing doesn't make it any less wrong. And don't forget, Viktor might have a 'reason' to be vengeful toward Lusett's children for following in her footsteps, but Elene has reasons for vengeance since he murdered her mother. Vengeance just leads to more vengeance.

And... the fact that you say David would go that far... kinda scares me. I've learned that you are willing to kill your main characters, and should you kill Ammelia, it really worries me that not only could David flip and try to kill Morrigan for allowing his daughter to die, but should those close to Morrigan turn on him for killing Morrigan... he'd have no qualms about killing them too. What if it was Brigid?

 

[DarkGemini24601]

I am saying that Viktor's brother was obviously very special to him... Lusett's cloning killed his brother... Now Elene wants to rekindle the same kind of research that took his brother's life. I imagine he doesn't want what happened to him to happen to anyone else's family.

In truth, Lusett's idea of doing anything and taking any risks in the name of science is what let to not only her death, but to this entire war with EXALT. So if you really think about it, all this is her fault.

I have to disagree with you there. Viktor clones himself, he created Desmond Walker. He doesn't give a shit about that research, he just hates the family because he blames them for his brother's death.

 

[Dahlexpert]

Are we still arguing if viktor has morals for his vengeance?